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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2019.04.29 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html">meeting 2019.04.29</a></h3>

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<a name="164473327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164473327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164473327">(Apr 29 2019 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span> -- meeting time in 5 minutes or so!</p>



<a name="164473335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164473335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164473335">(Apr 29 2019 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me realizes he didn't eat lunch today</p>



<a name="164473353"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164473353" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164473353">(Apr 29 2019 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm...gonna grab a falafel :) so maybe a few minutes late</p>



<a name="164473555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164473555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alexander Regueiro <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164473555">(Apr 29 2019 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> Can't make it today sadly, but I thought I'd update that <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/59445" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/59445">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/59445</a> is just waiting for review from Centril (though you or someone else is welcome to check it out and approve it too). The majority has already been reviewed.</p>



<a name="164474440"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474440" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474440">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124069">@Alexander Regueiro</span> nice</p>



<a name="164474463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474463">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span> <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<a name="164474508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474508">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, it's the start of a new 6-week "sprint"  this week</p>



<a name="164474575"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474575" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474575">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been thinking about that and what it means =)</p>



<a name="164474638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474638">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I created <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-sprint.next--AcLKrZ42EpC~vvP4xUAtQzsrAg-tlB3kVtQPO4ysoM8p6Zd2" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/wg-traits-sprint.next--AcLKrZ42EpC~vvP4xUAtQzsrAg-tlB3kVtQPO4ysoM8p6Zd2">this dropbox paper document</a>, trying to identify some of the next steps we should take for chalk etc</p>



<a name="164474684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474684">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also realized a few things -- (a) I thnk that I should generally spend the sprints preparing for the next one :)</p>



<a name="164474694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474694">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>(too late now, but maybe I can work on that for next time)</p>



<a name="164474806"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474806" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474806">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>and (b) I continue to struggle a bit in terms of the best next steps are :)</p>



<a name="164474856"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474856" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474856">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>the doc I posted a link to includes a smattering of tasks; there are more, but I thnk that's a decent set, but maybe we can discuss a bit the goals and where those tasks came from</p>



<a name="164474954"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164474954" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164474954">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>First off, I think a "enabling" thing to do is to try and land <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216">chalk#216</a>, which <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125131">@detrumi</span> has been working on. That I think is not really considering as a "sprint" activity per se because I hope we can do it very soon. I was hoping to spend some time on that this afternoon, in fact, trying to see if I can finish it up</p>



<a name="164475015"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475015" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475015">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>But that PR basically positions <code>chalk-solve</code> as the main chalk crate, and I think the way to understand the layering then is:</p>
<ul>
<li>chalk -- testing harness</li>
<li>chalk-solve -- bridges underlying logic engine and rust semantics</li>
<li>chalk-engine -- underlying logic engine</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475055"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475055" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475055">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think then that one piece of "validation" that makes sense for chalk is to extend it to cover some of the corners of Rust it doesn't yet handle. I have two notable entries on the list:</p>
<ul>
<li>trait objects and impl trait</li>
<li>specialization</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475114">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Each of them can I think be broken down into some subtasks</p>



<a name="164475209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475209">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Trait object and impl traits:</p>
<ul>
<li>I think we can break these down into extending chalk-ir and chalk-solve to express them and give them their basic semantics</li>
<li>And then (somewhat separately) the interactions with implied bounds</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475225">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>(The former builds pretty directly on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216">chalk#216</a>)</p>



<a name="164475305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475305">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>The former is probably a "medium" engineering task</p>



<a name="164475324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475324">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>The latter is a design task, though <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="131694">@scalexm</span> has basically laid it out -- so maybe it's more of a communication task :)</p>



<a name="164475327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475327">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>(which we can come back to)</p>



<a name="164475489"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475489" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475489">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>When it comes to specialization, I think that there are more layers, but it begins with:</p>
<ul>
<li>If we know which impl specializes the other, extend the projection rules to take that into account</li>
</ul>
<p>I think this is actually pretty straightforward, and I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="117350">@Sunjay Varma</span> is interested. =) </p>
<p>After that, we start to get into the more interesting soundness-related questions: these basically boil down to extending the coherence rules to ensure that, if impl A specializes impl B, then various criteria are met.</p>
<p>In other words, we can separate into:</p>
<ul>
<li><em>when</em> can one impl specialize another (hard, postpone vaguely)</li>
<li>what to do <em>if</em> one impl specializes another (relatively easy, start here)</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475534">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm typing a lot, I assume this makes at least <em>some</em> sense to people so far?)</p>



<a name="164475562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475562">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually I sort of like this breakdown, maybe I'll edit my sprint.next doc :)</p>



<a name="164475684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475684">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>tl;dr:</p>
<p>Goal: extend chalk to cover bits of Rust it doesn’t cover</p>
<ul>
<li>trait objects (2 tasks)</li>
<li>specialization (many tasks, but an obvious first step)</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475724"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475724" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475724">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I think the next goal has more to do w/ impl and search strategy</p>



<a name="164475802"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475802" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475802">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>And I think the obvious steps I see in that direction are probably</p>
<p>Goal: validate search strategy</p>
<ul>
<li>predicate order selection (relatively easy)</li>
<li>non-enumerable clauses (hard)</li>
</ul>



<a name="164475826"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475826" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475826">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can explain a bit what I mean by those things if desired, I realize that's mostly opaque jibberish</p>



<a name="164475892"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475892" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475892">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>In short, the order in which we try to prove things matters. There are some simple steps ("order selection") that we can use to try and keep ourselves in a smart order, but the structure of the solver will still wind up constrained. The "non-enumerable clauses" idea is a deeper change to the solver that should let it do more aggressive reordering.</p>



<a name="164475962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475962">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>chalk -- testing harness</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's one confusing naming :) <code>chalk-testing</code> might be better</p>



<a name="164475964"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475964" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475964">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that doing those items probably involves some related things. One of them is probably me explaining chalk-engine in more detail, as a pre-req, so that  we can then dive into how non-enumerable clauses would work</p>



<a name="164475982"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164475982" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164475982">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>That's one confusing naming :) <code>chalk-testing</code> might be better</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes..I wanted to bring up the naming...</p>



<a name="164476029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476029">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was also thinking it might be better to use the main crate for what is now chalk-solve, and create a chalk-testing crate</p>



<a name="164476060"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476060" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476060">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I think what we should do is</p>



<a name="164476066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476066">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>create a <code>chalk_test</code> crate</p>



<a name="164476072"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476072" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476072">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then move tests to <code>tests/</code> directory</p>



<a name="164476074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476074">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., use cargo properly</p>



<a name="164476262"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476262" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476262">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>so we can add that I guess as a further work item</p>



<a name="164476266"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476266" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476266">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>which raises a point I wanted to ask</p>



<a name="164476322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476322">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Goal: make chalk a nice codebase to work with</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="164476327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476327">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>this would be I think the meta goal</p>



<a name="164476332"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476332" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476332">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there is some work to be done there</p>



<a name="164476397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476397">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular i've noticed (a) a general lack of comments</p>



<a name="164476406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476406">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>and (b) I think that the rustc-guide material is incomplete and/or out of date</p>



<a name="164476442"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476442" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476442">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we want to put some energy into that?</p>



<a name="164476537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476537">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure</p>



<a name="164476565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476565">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Makes large refactorings a bit harder, but maybe things are mostly in place now?</p>



<a name="164476578"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476578" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476578">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, that's a valid question.</p>



<a name="164476588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476588">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe not</p>



<a name="164476623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476623">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>API comments don't have that problem to the same degree</p>



<a name="164476703"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476703" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476703">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>to keep rustc-guide from getting too out of date, maybe we should lean more on rustdoc for "here are all the pieces and what they do" type documentation</p>



<a name="164476718"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476718" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476718">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as well as direct API documentation)</p>



<a name="164476780"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476780" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476780">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's easier to remember to update things in the same codebase</p>



<a name="164476835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476835">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:33)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>API comments don't have that problem to the same degree</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, and some two-sentence descriptions of traits and structs would make a huge difference</p>



<a name="164476838"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476838" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476838">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, we could do that.</p>



<a name="164476890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476890">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think for this sprint we should just focus on API docs</p>



<a name="164476909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476909">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's sort of easy to "enumerate" the problem</p>



<a name="164476916"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476916" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476916">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>and you have to walk before you can run</p>



<a name="164476930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476930">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>The goal of the rustc-guide docs was to help communicate the "high level design"</p>



<a name="164476942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476942">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I suspect that videos might be as good or better for serving that role</p>



<a name="164476996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164476996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164476996">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>in case you've not been following the dropbox paper doc, I've got this so far:</p>
<p>Goal: extend chalk to cover bits of Rust it doesn’t cover</p>
<ul>
<li>trait objects (2 tasks)</li>
<li>specialization (many tasks, but an obvious first step)</li>
</ul>
<p>Goal: validate search strategy</p>
<ul>
<li>predicate order selection (relatively easy)</li>
<li>non-enumerable clauses (hard)<br>
    - explain how chalk-engine works — 1 or 2 more zoom calls<br>
    - explain and write-up proposal</li>
</ul>
<p>Goal: make chalk a nice codebase to work with</p>
<ul>
<li>good naming for crates, separate tests and repl out more cleanly</li>
<li>API comments — set a goal to have <code>#[deny(missing_docs)]</code></li>
</ul>



<a name="164477065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477065">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:36)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>The goal of the rustc-guide docs was to help communicate the "high level design"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, maybe a better criteria for rustc-guide material is "stuff that won't change significantly during refactoring"..?</p>



<a name="164477082"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477082" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477082">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>This is true for a lot of that material</p>



<a name="164477083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477083">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>even though that may be hard to decide :)</p>



<a name="164477085"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477085" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477085">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have to review what's there</p>



<a name="164477095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477095">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Here is my concern with the above list</p>



<a name="164477119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477119">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would like to be able to make clear steps towards chalk being used in something -- I think I would be happy with either rustc or rust-analyzer, or, ideally both</p>



<a name="164477153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477153">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that the non-enumerable clauses stuff is directly taking on the challenge of the "builtin traits"</p>



<a name="164477220"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477220">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I made a <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/rustc-chalk-integration--AcIDnfB0SViSRuJuzAnkRRQTAg-QSp9zIk3MS4jzyRpEzWv6#:uid=384362602477876109724804&amp;h2=Work-item-table" target="_blank" title="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/rustc-chalk-integration--AcIDnfB0SViSRuJuzAnkRRQTAg-QSp9zIk3MS4jzyRpEzWv6#:uid=384362602477876109724804&amp;h2=Work-item-table">more complete table of work-items</a> here for rustc-chalk integration specifically</p>



<a name="164477295"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477295" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477295">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm skimming it now</p>



<a name="164477377"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477377" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477377">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:40)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="131694">@scalexm</span> you mentioned that some tests work in rustc now, right?</p>



<a name="164477380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477380">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>were you basically running things by hand?</p>



<a name="164477396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477396">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>did you ever try to run against run-pass or something like that?</p>



<a name="164477441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477441">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I did not try to run against run-pass or whatever, there are only a few tests in run-pass/chalkify</p>



<a name="164477460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477460">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which just show that some basic programs do compile</p>



<a name="164477521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477521">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok.</p>



<a name="164477527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477527">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was wondering if we thought that might be useful</p>



<a name="164477539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477539">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>the other thing I was wondering about is:</p>



<a name="164477562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477562">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>if region constraints are a major work item, I think (a) we need something about them</p>



<a name="164477579"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477579" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477579">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>and (b) maybe we should modify the chalk integration to ignore them completely for now</p>



<a name="164477606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477606">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>you could even imagine doing something where chalk + the existing trait engine run side-by-side</p>



<a name="164477611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477611">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>and chalk is just ignoring region bounds, say</p>



<a name="164477617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477617">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>the idea being: can we flesh out what other problems to expect?</p>



<a name="164477629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477629">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>if region constraints are a major work item, I think (a) we need something about them</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have some thoughts here but want to focus on the other half first</p>



<a name="164477695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477695">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ps, sorry for this meeting running over-- sprint planning meetings really need more time :/)</p>



<a name="164477871"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477871" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477871">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:46)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>the idea being: can we flesh out what other problems to expect?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="131694">@scalexm</span> any thoughts on that?</p>
<p>Separately, I remember you mentioning some kind of inference problems, right?</p>



<a name="164477908"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477908" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477908">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="164477931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477931">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I described one of those in a PR of mine</p>



<a name="164477999"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164477999" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164477999">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/58305" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/58305">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/58305</a></p>



<a name="164478127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478127">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK</p>



<a name="164478158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478158">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I'm going to leave it at this for now:</p>
<p>Goal: rustc-chalk interation improvements</p>
<ul>
<li>get to the bottom of inference failure problems</li>
<li>consider some kind of mode to let us run more broadly against run-pass (e.g., disabling region integration, or running in tandem with the existing solver)</li>
</ul>



<a name="164478165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478165">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's kind of vague but I will try to make it more specific</p>



<a name="164478241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478241">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm.. I'm a bit concerned with leaving things vague after sprint planning, since in practice people usually don't pick up things like that to work on</p>



<a name="164478317"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478317" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478317">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>if region constraints are a major work item, I think (a) we need something about them</p>
</blockquote>
<p>to circle back to this: I have been thinking about how I think we should handle region constraints but I don't have firm answers. I want to try and talk this stuff out and write-up some sort of proposals. However, I suspect the ultimate solution will build on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216">chalk#216</a>, most likely, and perhaps non-enumerable clauses.</p>



<a name="164478319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478319">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Btw some parts of rustc still use the existing solver even with <code>-Z chalk</code></p>



<a name="164478347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478347">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>For example code that need to use a <code>SelectionContext</code> directly rather than a <code>FulfillmentContext</code></p>



<a name="164478373"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478373" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478373">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, yeah, and there is e.g. the cast code in coercions</p>



<a name="164478377"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478377" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478377">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ugh)</p>



<a name="164478384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scalexm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478384">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="164478551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478551">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure whether to worry about this right now :) one possible work item would be to try and refactor that code out of existence. I had a vague plan to try and move it to use <code>evaluate</code> -- but this would I think possibly be a breaking change, not entirely sure.</p>



<a name="164478577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478577">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>hmm.. I'm a bit concerned with leaving things vague after sprint planning, since in practice people usually don't pick up things like that to work on</p>
</blockquote>
<p>indeed. I was thinking that after this I will try to create issues with specific instructions</p>



<a name="164478716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478716">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, so, I'm feeling like this meeting has kind of gone long enough, we should look to some sort of wrap-up</p>



<a name="164478738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478738">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure whether to try and assign work now</p>



<a name="164478747"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478747" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478747">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>or for me to go and create issues and we try to "assign work" mildly async</p>



<a name="164478749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478749">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm leaning that way</p>



<a name="164478804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478804">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I want to ask is</p>



<a name="164478882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478882">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I still have this feeling that we've not done a good job getting people "up to speed" on the big picture enough, and i'm debating what is the best way to do this</p>



<a name="164478923"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478923" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478923">(Apr 29 2019 at 18:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I can't think of anything else that repeated zoom sessions trying to explain stuff :)</p>



<a name="164478995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164478995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164478995">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>what is the scope of the big picture you wish to bring people up to speed on? :)</p>



<a name="164479000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479000">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think it'd be nice to ways to 'cement' that, so that new people can come up to speed, though I suppose they can re-watch videos</p>



<a name="164479007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479007">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:00)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>what is the scope of the big picture you wish to bring people up to speed on? :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i'm wondering that myself :)</p>



<a name="164479068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479068">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I am thinking of things like this:</p>
<ul>
<li>what are the set of domain goals and what is their purpose<br>
    - like, why do we have <code>FromEnv</code>, <code>Implemented</code>, etc</li>
<li>how the chalk-engine works </li>
<li>.. is that it? maybe that's it? :)</li>
</ul>



<a name="164479073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479073">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess let me turn this around</p>



<a name="164479103"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479103" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479103">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>What things do you the assembled feel confused about and do you think we should make an effort to explain things, or should we just keep finding tasks and "learn by doing"?</p>



<a name="164479220"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479220">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's just a lot to take in. I mean, I can understand domain goals and such by looking at the implementation and the tests, but there's just so much to look  at <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="164479274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479274">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think both of those things would be helpful.<br>
Another I hit when working in chalk was binders, shifting indices, and substitutions, not sure if that's been covered already.<br>
Then there's the long tail of everything in rustc, e.g. I'm thinking of some of the things you mentioned that use the old trait code for <code>-Z chalk</code> and I don't have much context there at all.</p>



<a name="164479384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479384">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:04)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>like, why do we have <code>FromEnv</code>, <code>Implemented</code>, etc</p>
</blockquote>
<p>one reason I would like to discuss these is that I want to pick better names=)</p>



<a name="164479425"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479425" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479425">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, so, let me ask the question a slightly different way</p>



<a name="164479439"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479439" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479439">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>what do y'all think about fixing a weekly time (or perhaps every 2 weeks)</p>



<a name="164479446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479446">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>to do <em>some</em> kind of explanation</p>



<a name="164479451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479451">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>like we did last week</p>



<a name="164479464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479464">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>then we just have to pick which thing</p>



<a name="164479472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479472">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like scheduling is hard</p>



<a name="164479520"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479520" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479520">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if we had a fixed slot, i'd be happy to just join a call and talk a bit</p>



<a name="164479524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479524">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>(is Zoom best? we could use zulip too)</p>



<a name="164479533"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479533" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479533">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>somehow explaining things "lecture style" always feels very tedious over zulip :)</p>



<a name="164479543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sunjay Varma <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479543">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Zoom works</p>



<a name="164479586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sunjay Varma <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479586">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suggest that the people on the call be responsible for fleshing out the document you are writing as you write it. Otherwise a lot gets lost.</p>



<a name="164479591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479591">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a great idea</p>



<a name="164479602"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479602" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479602">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok I can make a doodle to find a time for that</p>



<a name="164479608"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479608" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sunjay Varma <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479608">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>It gives us a more active role on the call and produces an artifact for after the meeting too :)</p>



<a name="164479991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164479991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164479991">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, that seems good. So I'm going to go try and create issues.</p>



<a name="164480024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164480024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164480024">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>and look a bit into <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk/issues/216">chalk#216</a></p>



<a name="164480026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164480026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164480026">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="164480036"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164480036" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164480036">(Apr 29 2019 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>thanks all <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span></p>



<a name="164491162"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491162" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alexander Regueiro <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491162">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> Think you’ll have time to review my ATB PR soonish btw? It’s been bit-rotting a while heh.</p>



<a name="164491202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491202">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124069">@Alexander Regueiro</span> I started a review, but it's a lot of code and I haven't gotten that far yet :)</p>



<a name="164491274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491274">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually, I was talking about this with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span></p>



<a name="164491291"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491291" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491291">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking it might be good to have separate reviewers for the implementation and the tests</p>



<a name="164491430"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491430" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491430">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> might want to look at the tests, but I think it's good if <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> also looks at them to connect it to the implementation</p>



<a name="164491478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491478">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>looking at them is one thing, but if we're talking about reviewing for completeness/correctness, I think it's another</p>



<a name="164491528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491528">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>both are a significant amount of code, and reviewing each requires a different focus</p>



<a name="164491753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491753">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>essentially, I view the tests as a "lang" thing, and the implementation as a "compiler" thing</p>



<a name="164491799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164491799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164491799">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>doing a thorough review of both is.. a lot for one person, especially given that I need to learn some parts of the code to review the implementation side :)</p>



<a name="164492545"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164492545" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164492545">(Apr 29 2019 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> I agree with your general description :P</p>



<a name="164496811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202019.04.29/near/164496811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Alexander Regueiro <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202019.2E04.2E29.html#164496811">(Apr 29 2019 at 23:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> Okay sounds good, thanks.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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